Review: Ecclesiology Debate: Bp. Donald Sanborn vs. Dr. Robert Fastiggi (2004)




I decided to sit through this debate with great interest. Sedevacantism is an interesting subject for me and has been irritating me as well as attracted me for the last five or so years. This was an interesting debate. I have to say first off that I don't think this ended up being a debate on Vatican II ecclesiology. It quickly became a debate on submission to the Roman Pontiff versus alleged schism. I believe that the debate should have been: "John Paul II, is not a valid successor to St. Peter, the Pope". I don't want to make this review too long and so I will just note some strengths and weaknesses.

Strengths: Bishop Sanborn did an excellent job in identifying the key issues regarding Vatican II and post-Vatican II ecclesiology, in contrast with classical understanding of the nature of the Church, pre-Vatican II. To which, I do not believe Dr. Fastiggi did an adequate job in defending. Dr. Fastiggi seems to see the Vatican II and following teaching as a development of the the doctrine on the Church, a notion which has been condemned by the Church. Dr. Fastiggi on the other hand does an excellent job in focusing on relevant issues, at least proximate to the main underlying issue of sedevacantism which is separation from communion from the Roman Pontiff. Too often we hear the laments of the sedevacantist laypersons with the superficial and subjective observations of post-V2 Church and how that is supposed to prove that the current papal claimants are not popes. Dr. Fastiggi was good at identifying logical fallacies employed, and he does well to warn the sedevacantists of the grave issue of schism, which if true, separates oneself from membership in the Catholic Church, outside of which there is no salvation.

Weaknesses: First off, this footage is clumsy and very unprofessional. A momentous event like this should have had a professional filming, at least someone that had a tripod to stabilize the camera. Perhaps it was a symbol of the Post-Vatican II chaos. For Bishop Sanborn I would say that his weakness is that I don't remember his utilizing the simple argument that a person who loses the faith by subscribing to heresy, no longer is a member of the Catholic Church and a non-member of the Catholic Church cannot be the head of that which he is not a member of. Simple. Which leads to Dr. Fastiggi's weakness and that is he fails to understand that in the sedevacantist context, they are not guilty of being unwilling to submit themselves to the Roman Pontiff, since they don't believe he is the Roman Pontiff. Thus, they are not schismatics. You would have to refute their arguments that the "pope" is not the pope.

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